


It's Spirals All The Way Down

by mittensmorgul (MittenWraith)



Category: Supernatural
Genre: Archived From Mittensmorgul Blog, Archived From Tumblr, Meta, Meta Essay
Language: English
Status: In-Progress
Published: 2018-12-17
Updated: 2018-12-17
Packaged: 2019-09-20 23:53:15
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 18
Words: 14,199
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/17032305
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/MittenWraith/pseuds/mittensmorgul
Summary: A few posts on the narrative structure of Supernatural.





	1. Chapter 1

May 4, 2017

143 notes

**[destielonfire](http://destielonfire.tumblr.com/) asked: Ok so my first thought is: how does the obvious parallel between the banes and the Winchesters (and Max and Dean in particular) and their story in this ep fit into the "finding a better way / not repeating past mistakes" theme of this season? Even if Max didn't sell his soul, I find it difficult to see what he did as finding a better way instead of just history repeating itself...what do you think?**

The problem is assuming that there are “obvious parallels” in s12.

There aren’t.

And… even the parallel between Dean and Max is flawed… 

I’m having an exceedingly difficult time writing coherent meta lately, because s12 is like one of those Magic Eye pictures that you can’t “see” unless you unfocus your eyes and stop TRYING to see it.

(funnily enough I can’t actually see the pictures in those damn books)

I told Lizbob the other day it’s the sound of one hand clapping. I’m starting to feel like a total flake trying to write meta about it, because it’s like writing meta on the sea.

Max didn’t take a deal (SUBVERTED!), Alicia isn’t actually resurrected because she’s just sticks and string with her consciousness overlaid with magic AND UNDER MAX’S CONTROL, not actually completely free. (SUBVERTED!)

I’d been expecting that to happen (or something similar) since Alicia was the first one possessed by the demon in 12.06.

Because in some ways, Max was a closer mirror to Sam, and Alicia was a closer mirror to Dean…

Max was the “natural witch,” the one with freaky magical powers (like Sam). He was the one convinced that their mother was doing the equivalent of Sam’s “pulling overtime on a Miller Time Shift” back in the pilot. HE DIDN’T WANT TO GO LOOKING FOR HER. LIKE SAM DIDN’T WANT TO GO LOOKING FOR JOHN. Max had a date, Sam had Jess.

Alicia was the “normal” one with no freaky psychic woo woo (like Dean), but the one who was legitimately concerned about her mother when she didn’t call in like she usually did. Max made fun of her for it, but she refused to take no for an answer (like Dean did in the pilot).

See what I mean about looking for perfect mirrors in s12? They don’t exist.

It’s like depending on what “layer” of the text you’re looking at, you see two completely different parallels. Opposites, even.

Now Tasha was obviously a good hunter (AND WITCH!) to have lived in the life as long as she did. I’ve even reblogged at least one post that paralleled her to John here. Unlike John, in the end SHE DID NOT TAKE THE DEAL.

Aside from the surface-level similarities in the fact she raised her kids to be hunters, that’s really as far as the parallel works. Everything else about her, and how she raised them (witchcraft! How to flirt with men!) was different.

Looking at the surface level of s12 and trying to speculate is… flawed at best. The mirrors are all broken. Yet the entire story is being told through broken mirrors. You have to unfocus your eyes and look at the cracks to see what’s really going on.

And that sounds idiotic, I know. But that’s how Dabb is telling this story.

 

[spn 12.20](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-12.20) [parallels](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/parallels) [revenge of the subtext](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/revenge-of-the-subtext) [i've had several out of body experiences trying to wrap my head around it all](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/i%27ve-had-several-out-of-body-experiences-trying-to-wrap-my-head-around-it-all) [but i swear it makes complete sense](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/but-i-swear-it-makes-complete-sense)


	2. Chapter 2

May 5, 2017

110 notes

It’s Spirals All The Way Down.

I’ve been thinking about this [since I made this post last night](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/160320959435/ok-so-my-first-thought-is-how-does-the-obvious) (but honestly I’ve been thinking about this since 10.23…), about how this show uses imperfect mirrors and parallels and what level of the text and subtext is actually telling us the full story here.

(and really Metatron looked directly into the camera and TOLD us this in 9.18)

But s12 especially has been structured on the foundation that ALL THE STORIES ARE WRONG. All the mirrors are flipped or broken or distorted somehow. All of our preconceived notions are fundamentally flawed. EVERYTHING in s12 is operating from this premise that “the story became the story,” even if it wasn’t TRUE. Even if it was based on a partial truth, or an extrapolation of something that someone believed was true. We’re finding out that underneath it all, none of it had ever been the FULL story.

Perspective matters. Point of view matters. Context matters. Having the entire story matters. The facts matter. And understanding all of that CHANGES the meaning for everyone.

What we believe to be true, when confronted with a new point of view or new information, makes us question the basis of our beliefs and reassess everything we always thought was true.

That’s what Mary coming back has done.

Under a cut because long, but not as long as I was expecting because Lizbob saved me typing a lot (there’s a link to her notes at the point I stopped typing to read instead… :P)

I’ve been seeing this play out all season and tagging it various things from “the story became the story” and “lies and damn lies” and “revenge of the subtext” and all the “another way” screeching, and the Rashomon Effect. It’s all about the same thing, really. And on about nine different meta and subtextual (and even surface text) levels, it describes EVERYTHING that happened in 12.20.

(seriously my brain is exploding trying to hold it all)

I think the easiest way to convey even a small part of just how fucking meta this episode was is to explain the various mirrors and parallels the episode demonstrated to us– from the very obvious surface level story to the extremely deep-layer character and emotional stuff. Because NONE OF THE MIRRORS MATCH UP RIGHT. Because the story became the story, and all the cards are shuffled, and all the mirrors are cracked.

(it’s fucking brilliant, is what it is)

I’ll try to go about this in an orderly fashion, but knowing me, it’s gonna turn into a jumbled mess. Then again, maybe that’s metaphorically appropriate.

So here’s me just kinda going through the whole episode chronologically and pulling all the parallels.

Tasha at the beginning seems to be doing some normal things hunters do. She checks into this hotel (a lovely place on the surface, the dude at the front desk is all polite and all, but ick the woman winding yarn in the front room is >.>… which Tasha lampshades by offering to clear up her “muddy aura” for her).

Tasha even drives a green “green” car. She’s a vegan. She’s a “natural witch” who was born with her powers. She’s healthy and organic and good. Yet she’s there to look for a “borrower witch,” who got powers from a demon and is using them in evil ways. Her spell she performs lets her follow this glowy-purple representation of her own powers into this dark and dank storm cellar where she discovers something horrifying, and she’s stabbed in the back before she even has a chance to react.

Meanwhile back at the bunker, Dean is explaining how WRONG Cas seemed the night before. He’s wracking his brain trying to come up with a way to find and help Cas, because he believes Cas has been “sock-puppeted” by Lucifer Junior. In the same scene Sam unwraps the broken Colt and they discuss whether or not they can fix it… Unlike Cas who’s hopefully still in there and “whole,” the Colt might need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

A phone buzzes, and neither Dean nor Sam owns that phone… and they assume it was left behind by Mary. (and now I’m CONVINCED that phones never lose their charge in the bunker. The place came complete with free wifi and anti-gps tracking. I think at this point Tesla was a Man of Letters who built a small Wardenclyffe Tower over the bunker. Heck, it was supposed to be an old power station right? Maybe that’s more literal than we expect…)

Sam answers, and it’s Alicia calling for Mary. She’s surprised to hear Sam’s voice, and I’m thinking it’s because last time she talked to Mary she’d been trying to call DEAN, but Mary answered and went to help her instead, because Sam and Dean were “missing.” I think Mary may not have bothered to tell Alicia and Max that she’d ever “found” her sons. Nice, right? That probably leads to some of Alicia’s assumptions about the relationship between Mary and the boys that she asks Sam about later. (she’s not a hugger– and we then see Alicia immediately exchanging a hug with her own mom to highlight that difference)

And here the parallels and mixed bag of mirrors begin to shift around.

Alicia, at the very beginning here, seems to be the very clear mirror to Dean 1.01. Max is the clear mirror to Sam in 1.01. But even this is a skewed interpretation. Because who would that make Sam and Dean? In the pilot episode, they had no one to call for help in looking for John. They had no one willing to drop everything and be with them through that. All they had was John’s journal that he left behind for them with a set of coordinates that would lead them on a mad scavenger hunt.

Sam even lampshades this parallel by telling Dean their mom’s on a hunt and hasn’t been home in a week, recalling some of the first words Dean ever said to Sam in 1.01. Which makes a weird double-mirror as Alicia and Max as a UNIT a mirror for Dean calling for help, and Sam and Dean as a UNIT a mirror for Sam in the pilot of reluctantly agreeing to go along despite having other pressing personal concerns (protecting a loved one who may be in peril if left alone– Jess in the pilot, knowing Sam had dreams of her death days before it happened, and now Cas in 12.20– having a potentially life changing interview for law school, or a potentially life-changing job of repairing the Colt)

While Sam gets ready to go, Dean calls Mary to tell her about Alicia’s request for help on a case (since Alicia had been trying to reach Mary in the first place), but then he breaks down and asks to just talk to Mary about his own personal issues, because he’s “spun out” about them. What have we seen him distressed about throughout this scene? CAS.

He was arguing with Sam about running off to help Alicia when all he wanted to work on was the Cas issue. Sam gives him a very well ordered and thought out list of reasons they’d already done all they could about Cas for the moment– an APB to Jody covering three states, even! So Dean relents, but he’s so unhappy about it he is willing to open up to Mary about it.

But the very next scene sees another shift of those already imperfectly aligned mirrors.  Accidents don’t happen accidentally, and all that. First we need to check in with the other half of our story, Mary and the MoL.

Ketch is “interviewing” a shifter who’s taken on Mary’s appearance, and is creepily talking to “Real Mary” while looking “shifter Mary” in the eye, and he has NO HESITATION in torturing her, either way. Mary very pointedly refers to the shifter as “he,” despite it looking just like her, while Ketch even MORE pointedly calls the shifter “IT,” and believes IT deserves what he’s doing to it and a whole lot more. If only Mary knew what her father had been up to back in s6, torturing monsters for info on Purgatory. But this time, the information Ketch is trying to get is on the location of the shifter’s FAMILY.  It’s become PERSONAL in every way.

As soon as Sam and Dean meet up with Alicia and Max, the mirrors begin to flip. Alicia is suddenly paralleled to Sam, while Max is paralleled to Dean. But the mirrors are so imperfect. Alicia talks about how Max and Tasha have a closer bond because they’re both natural witches, and how she feels a bit left out. Sam compares that to Dean and John’s bond over hunting and how he’d always felt left out there. Meanwhile Max and Dean bond over the fact Max got the bartender’s phone number, thinks Dean’s car is “major,” and admires his grenade launcher.

And can we pause for a moment here to see the same progression from grenade launcher (NO!) to what they really need in this situation– witch killing bullets– that the post it notes in 12.11 led Dean to? Okay. Moment over.

Alicia asks Sam, after he talks about growing up with John, “What about with Mary?” And he stumbles over how to answer that, literally stutters over using the word, “vanishes” to describe how she disappears from their lives while hunting. She doesn’t seem like much of a hugger (which we find out Tasha and Alicia ARE in the next scene).

Creepy unfriendly guy by the creepy storm cellar… I’m sure that’s not plot-relevant.

(aside to mention that Sam has been trapped in those sorts of cellars before– notably in 12.01-02 while being tortured by Toni Bevell, but also waaaay back in 1.12, which was another episode that dealt heavily with faith (hence the title) but also the manipulation of life and death)

Our four intrepid hunters enter the hotel and are greeted by the flower-wielding desk clerk before Tasha notices them and asks what they’re doing there. Max is like “yeah, told you everything was fine,” and Alicia is just happy to see her mom (with the hug).

***At this point, Lizbob just posted her rewatch notes, and I’m reading them and seeing just how much she already covered, so I don’t just go on randomly repeating stuff you can read elsewhere, because these notes are already approaching 2k words and I’m like a quarter of the way through the episode…

**** YEP, okay, I’m just gonna direct y’all to Lizbob’s notes, save myself loads of typing and y’all’s eyeballs lots of reading… and just leave a few notes here to expand on a couple of things. So at this point, please go read this: <https://elizabethrobertajones.tumblr.com/post/160349267153/12x20-watching-notes-reblog-if> and then think about these few additional items:

Even the decor inside this hotel is an illusion, the fake trees and vines when outside is the real thing. Inside the hotel, things might look real on the surface, but really it’s just wallpaper…

Dean rolled his eyes at the idea of wine SEVERAL times, and yet didn’t make fun of the repeated mention of vegan food. I guess he can respect people’s lifestyle choices. BUT HE WAS EVEN ALL READY TO EAT THE VEGAN FOOD.

The Mary-Ketch Battle Royale: All season we’ve talked about how the MoL are coded in the same way as the angels. The strict structure, the OBEDIENCE above all, The Code being their Word Of God, and Ketch lampshades all of it by telling Mary that Enochian Brass Knuckles only work on angels… she points out that brass knuckles are still brass knuckles, and humans are just as vulnerable in tender places to just getting walloped with a heavy bit of metal, magic or no. :P

The witch: What a ridiculous Cain parallel. Not only did she want to “pass on her burden” in a way, she also silenced Dean in a really similar way to how Cain silenced Crowley. Plus they both had the same sort of general attitude. :P

  
And then at the end, Max is a mixed bag of parallels… with bits of both Dean and Sam’s current issues. He regrets not listening to Alicia’s concerns that something was wrong, and didn’t examine Tasha a little more closely to notice something was “off” about her. (Like Sam currently dismissing Dean’s passionate assertion that Cas is not acting under his own free will now. That Cas WOULDN’T ditch them, nor would he disable his phone, like Tasha did.) But he’s also brought back Alicia as a twig person, because while it’s still sort of her, it’s definitely not the original (like Sam working on the Colt, but also like the both of them have done for each other over and over again,) 

But this is the way the entire SEASON is being told, through a shifting series of mirrors and callbacks to the past, but applied in different ways to different characters.

The two Mytharc plots of s12 are being told like concurrent, overlapping Monster of the Week stories, where the “case of the week” is more of a vehicle for Sam and Dean to step back and evaluate, to look within themselves and process the lessons of the Mytharc episodes. It’s like after 11 years of constantly escalating apocalyptic-level problems to deal with, s12 is giving them a whole YEAR to step back and reevaluate.

And yes the BMoL is a Big Bad, and so is Lucifer and Lucifer Jr., but the narrative is treating them like overgrown MotW monsters just in the way the plots are structured.

Everything is a slightly out of focus mirror for everything else, and it’s freaking brilliant.

 

[spn s12 spoilers](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s12-spoilers) [spn 12.20](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-12.20) [parallels](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/parallels) [seriously though why doesn't everyone just trust dean's gut instincts it's like he's got an uncanny magical gift here...](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/seriously-though-why-doesn%27t-everyone-just-trust-dean%27s-gut-instincts-it%27s-like-he%27s-got-an-uncanny-magical-gift-here...) [sam vs reality](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/sam-vs-reality) [winchester family dynamics](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/winchester-family-dynamics) [castiel winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/castiel-winchester) [mary f. winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/mary-f.-winchester) [men of letters vs hunters](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/men-of-letters-vs-hunters) [the witch twins](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-witch-twins) [the rashomon effect](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-rashomon-effect) [the story became the story](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-story-became-the-story) [lies and damn lies](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/lies-and-damn-lies) [face your past head-on and find another way a better way](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/face-your-past-head-on-and-find-another-way-a-better-way) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down)


	3. Chapter 3

[Jun 13, 2017](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/161795735290/i-did-like-that-they-had-god-point-out-that-it-was)

48 notes

**Anonymous asked: I did like that they had God point out that it was Sam's fault for releasing Amara and dragging codependacy in general. Not out of any hate for Sam, but because the characters need to really face their mistakes and take full responsibility for them. People are dying because of this. But then they had Dean saying he would never leave Sam and the samulet makes a return and I start to wonder if they want to have and eat their cake too... Nothing seems to stick when it comes to this issue.**

[mittensmorgul](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/143883002745/i-did-like-that-they-had-god-point-out-that-it-was):

> It’s almost like God created this universe, decided he didn’t want the Darkness to mess up his toys again this time, created some Super Helpers to lock her away, and then had the legos all to himself for a few billion years.
> 
> And he’s been resting on the laurels of that one deed that spawned this entire universe ever since. He’s created the angels and humanity, too, but I think overall he’s kinda disappointed they turned out so much like him in some ways. Like the angels have been acting out a slightly smaller-scale drama that God had with the Darkness on an ongoing basis. The Apocalypse, the attempted reboot of the apocalypse and Cas’s fight to stop it. The leviathan getting loose (and then getting locked back up). Lucifer getting lose and getting locked back up only to get loose again.
> 
> And humanity has acted out similar petty battles against each other… forever. So yeah,
> 
> It’s ridiculous to blame it all on Sam, like that was the inciting incident in this whole drama.
> 
> Just like it’s ridiculous to blame it all on Dean for taking the Mark in the first place. Or to blame Cas for how he defeated Raphael, or to blame the angels and demons themselves who started the apocalypse in the first place for the situation we’re currently in. Might as well blame Mary for making that demon deal in 1973. Or the Men of Letters for not stopping Abaddon in 1958. Or Cain for not killing her in 1863. Or blame Cain for taking the Mark from Lucifer in order to save his own brother. Or blame Abel for listening to Lucifer and believing it was God in the first place. Or blame Eve for eating the apple. Or blame Gadreel for letting Lucifer into the Garden. Or blame Lucifer for feeling bitter about having to hold the Key to the Darkness while humanity took the higher place in God’s heart. Or maybe blame God and the Darkness for being petty in the first place.
> 
> And that’s what the story is suggesting.
> 
> And maybe it’s not “blame,” but acknowledgement and an admission.that mistakes were made, and it’s time to take responsibility for that all down that line.
> 
> and I’ll point you to [the things](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/143873610765/what-is-the-point-to-bring-the-amulet-back-dean) I’ve already [posted about the samulet’s](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/143878495400/deathbycoldopen-a-few-posts-have-mentioned-the) return, and why I think it basically proves the opposite of the point you’re trying to make here.

 

[spn 11.20](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-11.20) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [something i read today made me go spelunking for this post i original wrote on may 5 2016](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/something-i-read-today-made-me-go-spelunking-for-this-post-i-original-wrote-on-may-5-2016)


	4. Chapter 4

[Jul 16, 2017](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/163065000780/ive-been-watching-the-beginning-of-season-eleven)

7 notes

**Anonymous asked: I've been watching the beginning of season eleven, and I was just wondering if you have some thoughts on why Dean is blamed for releasing the Darkness? My goal is not to dredge up old wank or anything - I wasn't in fandom when those episodes aired so I have no idea if this is something that was talked about a lot - I'm just genuinely curious about it because several characters, including Rowena and Dean himself, have now talked about the Darkness as if Dean is responsible for her being free(1/2)**

(season eleven anon) It just seems disingenuous to me to suggest that Dean is responsible for the Darkness’s release because although he did have the MoC, his plan for dealing with the Mark would have ensured that the Darkness was never released, and he explicitly told Sam numerous times that he didn’t want to use the Book of the Damned. So I guess I’m just confused as to how Dean is somehow partially responsible for the Darkness? (2/2)  
  


Hi there, and yeah, this has been covered in exhaustive detail. :P

I reblogged a few things on the subject of “who’s to blame for the Darkness” quite recently, and I hope you don’t mind me just tossing a link your way rather than writing another essay…

<http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/161795735290/i-did-like-that-they-had-god-point-out-that-it-was>

(an: I just spent two hours looking through my blog for a specific post and thinking I was losing my mind because I couldn’t find it… and then realized that the link I’d already put there ^^ IS that specific post I’d been looking for while getting distracted with ancient meta… oops… for some reason I thought there was more, but there’s a metric ton of meta written about where the true “blame” lies, but most of it was written very late in s11, specifically post 11.20…)

 

[spn s11](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s11) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down)


	5. Chapter 5

[Nov 22, 2017](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/167771995200/for-anyone-who-thinks-the-writing-isnt-completely)

40 notes

For anyone who thinks the writing isn’t completely fucking On Point in s13:

mittensmorgul  
I’m rewatching 2.07. And I’m beginning to think that they’re essentially referencing every episode ever in s13

elizabethrobertajones  
aaaaaaaaaah  
which bits of 2x07?

mittensmorgul  
gah, sorry. Identity stuff… Sam and Dean think it’s a vengeful spirit doing the killing, but it’s a death omen, and Tony (who had been insistent on framing THEM) had been the killer all along…  
Like Dave the ghoul  
it’s a stretch, but thematically similar

elizabethrobertajones  
ooh  
yeah  
and of course lots of interaction with cops

mittensmorgul  
and one of the cops sort of goes vigilante to help cover up the mess, in a “we were never here” sort of moment  
but their “cover story” to the cops at first was “dad’s army buddy,” yeah sure we knew these people our whole lives (when they were complete strangers)

mittensmorgul  
And Dean’s “confession” that’s the absolute truth as far as they knew it at the point, which freaks out Tony Giles because hell Dean sounded nuts with the ghost stuff, but he knew SOMETHING

* * *

There’s all these themes coming back in different ways in s13. I mean, the THEN segment at the beginning of 2.07 focused a lot on the shapeshifter and Dean’s supposed legal “death” in 1.06. At the time, it was just to set up the reasons Sam and Dean had come to be on the radar for law enforcement. And at one point in this episode we learn that they were exhuming “Dean’s body” that was actually the shapeshifter who’d been impersonating Dean when Dean killed him in order to figure out how Dean “faked his own death.”

In s13 we’ve had another shapeshifter take Dean’s form (and then peel his face off). We’ve seen Dean struggle with grief (like he did through early s2 over John).

Sam sat in the police station in 2.07 and spun an entire story for the cops that logically explained away every possible detail (and we’re told Dean confirmed the entire story point for point). We see Sam and Dean communicate in code, and then we see Dean make his “confession” that to outsiders sounds like a load of hooey, but states the absolute truth as far as they knew it at the time, but the entire thing was a ruse anyway, to give Sam a chance to escape now that they had A Clue to follow up on the case.

and in 13.06:

**Sam** : So what do we tell Athena?  
 **Dean** : Well, we keep it simple. Tell her the guy she’s banging eats dead people and we’re here to kill him. Or we could lie.  
 **Sam** : Yeah, we definitely lie.

Later, Dean will eventually tell Athena that her boyfriend wasn’t exactly human, but he doesn’t ever clarify beyond that point. “Grave robbery and murder” were probably enough for Athena to assume that’s the sort of “monster” Dave was… a metaphorical monster.

There’s just so much surrounding themes of identity and self-understanding that have been in the show since the beginning. I swear my rewatches are just getting progressively more *waving hand at everything and nodding along at all of it* because ~everything~ is just so narratively consistent it’s just… What even is there to say about any of it anymore?

And now y’all understand why I wanna punch things when people suggest the show is poorly written, or that it’s ooc, or that the current writers aren’t 100% aware of the story they’re telling us here.

  

 

[spn 13.06](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-13.06) [spn 2.07](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-2.07) [s13 meta rewatch](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/s13-meta-rewatch) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down)


	6. Chapter 6

[Nov 26, 2017](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/167914498010/but-why-cant-casmisha-be-contracted-to-be-in-more)

43 notes

**Anonymous asked: But why cant cas/misha be contracted to be in more eps? Having a main charactwe dissappear for 50% of the shows eps is something that happens on no other show ever. The leads closets characters are usually in all the eps. Cas as a sinilar positiin and history to arrows "felicity" (a guest character upgraded to main cast and a romance with the lead due to fan popularity) and she is all the eps with gigantic focus and I could go throw 100s shows why cant spn have that whe most others do?**

Okay, I’ve been sitting on this long enough to have chilled out since the initial tsunami of wank hit my inbox the other day, so hopefully I’ll be able to address this in a level-headed fashion.

First off, comparing Supernatural to other shows just doesn’t work. The show really, truly, at the center of everything else, is about Sam and Dean Winchester. Yes, Cas is a very important character. Yes, he is a Winchester, part of their family, loved dearly by both of them. Yes, his entire character arc beginning from that first moment he crashed through those barn doors in 4.01 has been one of the most epic developments in any character in television (and arguably literary) history. Cas is Capital-I Important.

But the way the story of Supernatural has ALWAYS been told, Sam and Dean are at the center of the narrative. For the most part, the story happens TO Sam, and the emotional heart of the story has been experienced and reflected to us by Dean.

Now I ask of you to consider what actually happened with Felicity and Oliver. What did the show have to do to her and to their relationship when they seemed to be getting their Happily Ever After ending? (note: I don’t watch Arrow, but Mr. Mittens does, so I sort of watch it peripherally and have a general idea of what’s happening on the show through him)

Felicity was gravely injured, dark secrets from Oliver’s past resurfaced, Felicity’s trust in Oliver was broken, and their relationship ended. I mean… is that  _really_  the sort of thing you’re suggesting would be  _a good thing_  to happen to Dean and Cas?

_Really_?

Dean and Cas have been doing this very slow dance toward one another  _for nine years_. Are you suggesting that suddenly shoving them together before the story is ready for them to be together just because “fan popularity” demands it is actually  _good writing_?

Because at that point where does the narrative tension between those two come from? Would they fight with one another? Would they split up? I mean, that’s what happened to Oliver and Felicity…

So let’s not compare Supernatural to other shows. I’m more than happy with the QUALITY of Cas’s narrative over the last few seasons. The story itself has made it clear exactly what Cas’s issues are (depression, self-doubt, letting go of his obligation and duty to heaven, who and what he even is or wants to be, who he loves and what he fears…). We’ve been undeniably shown HOW IMPORTANT he is, both to Dean and to Team Free Will and the Winchester family unit.

We’ve also been undeniably shown Dean’s personal issues, with his self-doubt, his feelings of worthlessness, and his codependency with Sam has been put under a microscope for dissection. His issues with Mary and John, and his issues with God and the entire universe that keeps manhandling him into situations that he’s supposed to fix, his bout with the Mark of Cain and Amara, and now Billie’s plans for him… he just wants off that cosmic ride, but he doesn’t yet know how. And it’s undeniably clear that having Cas around is part of what he wants. Arguably a HUGE part of what he wants, if the first six episodes of s13 are anything to judge by.

So yeah, looking at the narrative as a whole, I am perfectly content to let Dabb and Supernatural keep telling this story the way they always have.

 [It’s spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down).

The narrative continues to circle through the same themes, but going through the loops faster and faster, overlapping more and more. Honestly it’s a gorgeous way to tell a story, just speaking as a writer. Like Billie said, it’s poetic.

I know writers (no name-naming, for obvious reasons) who have capitulated to reader demand for certain characters to do certain things, or for things the writer originally planned for the story to NOT happen because readers were upset by it, because the readers couldn’t see the writer’s Grand Plan… and without exception, EVERY writer I know that capitulated to Fan Demand and changed their story– altered their vision in the name of fanservice– regretted it and felt their story suffered for it.

So honestly? Yeah, I’m glad Dabb is holding to the reins here. I’m glad he hasn’t derailed NINE YEARS worth of buildup just to appease us. Because in the long run? That’s how you take something grand and suck the life right out of it.

What does that have to do with Misha’s contract or the number of episodes he’s scheduled to appear in every season? Pretty much everything. The story’s not ready for that.

Will the story ever be ready for that? ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

But I’m not writing it. Andrew Dabb is. I have no reason not to trust him here. So far he’s done nothing to shake my confidence in him, and in sticking to the larger narrative.

(Disclaimer: I am in no way suggesting that people’s feelings on whether or not ANY character is being treated “fairly” by the overall narrative are invalid, nor am I suggesting that anybody doesn’t have the absolute right to discuss those feelings on their own blog. I share my *own personal opinions* on this matter. I’m getting anons telling me to shut up about this… and I’m like,  _you do know that the only reason I keep talking about this at all is because y’all are delivering it directly to my inbox, right?_ Most of why I haven’t been discussing this otherwise is because it’s something I’m entirely unconcerned about.)

  

 

[narrative structure](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/narrative-structure) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [misha](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/misha) [castiel winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/castiel-winchester) [Anonymous](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/Anonymous)[this is an andrew dabb appreciation blog (except when it comes to car stuff)](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/this-is-an-andrew-dabb-appreciation-blog-%28except-when-it-comes-to-car-stuff%29) [how the sausage is made](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/how-the-sausage-is-made) [wank adjacent](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/wank-adjacent) [see this is why i avoid talking about my 'unpopular opinions' i like having friends :D](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/see-this-is-why-i-avoid-talking-about-my-%27unpopular-opinions%27-i-like-having-friends-%3AD) [when stuff lands in my inbox i have to assume people are asking me specifically about it because they want reassurance](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/when-stuff-lands-in-my-inbox-i-have-to-assume-people-are-asking-me-specifically-about-it-because-they-want-reassurance) [knowing that i am Supremely Chill™ about all of this sort of stuff](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/knowing-that-i-am-Supremely-Chill%E2%84%A2-about-all-of-this-sort-of-stuff) [so i do try to reassure but sometimes I just don't know how to deal with straight-up vitriol because i can't even fathom it](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/so-i-do-try-to-reassure-but-sometimes-I-just-don%27t-know-how-to-deal-with-straight-up-vitriol-because-i-can%27t-even-fathom-it) [and i have no desire to hurt anyone or invalidate anyone's feelings](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/and-i-have-no-desire-to-hurt-anyone-or-invalidate-anyone%27s-feelings) [i'm just sitting here in my happy little corner enjoying a tv show](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/i%27m-just-sitting-here-in-my-happy-little-corner-enjoying-a-tv-show)


	7. Chapter 7

[face against the keyboard*](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/%2Asighs-heavily-and-gently-bashes-my-face-against-the-keyboard%2A) [Anonymous](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/Anonymous)

[Dec 31, 2017](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/169153351750/destiel-has-been-so-intriguing-this-year-i-really)

23 notes

**Anonymous asked: Destiel has been so intriguing this year! I really and truly am curious to see where the season takes it; because they've reached a certain plateau where so much has happened that they can't just keep going like they have been. Dean can't go back to how things were, not after experiencing what he's experienced.**

Yeah, they’ve kinda painted themselves into a corner.

A while back we were using the analogy of them walking down a hallway and every time they passed doorways they could take that would lead them off the path toward inevitable confessions, they’ve seemed to slam those doors shut.

Confession time: I just spent the better part of an hour looking for that hallway metaphor post, which loosely translates to “I spent the better part of an hour scrolling through my own blog and getting distracted by other posts and then giving up finding the hallway metaphor post.”

But the metaphor seems apt for where we are in canon right now, post 13.09, with Dean and Cas BOTH trapped– Cas in a literal prison cell and therefore locked away behind one of those doors off the metaphorical hallway for a bit, and Dean trapped in a literal alternate universe for a while setting up the “alternate universe” of the Wayward Sisters spinoff. It’s a convenient way to describe what they’re doing within the narrative structure.

It’s like someone on the writing staff took the hallways and open doors metaphor and just ran with it, gleefully shoving them through random doors and slamming them shut behind them. Honestly this is the only way they have to keep all the characters from grabbing on to each other and sprinting for that final door at this point, you know? Set them all running in side loops behind locked doors that they have to kick down.

It’s like they each got trapped in one of those [Escape Room](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FEscape_room&t=ODk4MzQ1ZTBlNmQ2MTk2NGFjM2VmZjg5ZWFhNDg4Y2U4YzAwMmMyNiw1UnV0T1dGTg%3D%3D&b=t%3AgQ2jjt29OviG-kJJpyAysQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fmittensmorgul.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F169153351750%2Fdestiel-has-been-so-intriguing-this-year-i-really&m=1) thingies.

I happen to find it highly amusing, but I have a twisted sense of humor so. :P

  

 

[the scheherazade of supernatural](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-scheherazade-of-supernatural) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [except when the writers have to throw down deliberate road blocks](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/except-when-the-writers-have-to-throw-down-deliberate-road-blocks) [because the spiral's gotten too tight for comfort](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/because-the-spiral%27s-gotten-too-tight-for-comfort) [pffft now i'm gonna forever think of The Bad Place as The Worst Escape Room Mystery Game](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/pffft-now-i%27m-gonna-forever-think-of-The-Bad-Place-as-The-Worst-Escape-Room-Mystery-Game) [Anonymous](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/Anonymous)

[Jan 3, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/169272854930/12-this-is-a-weird-season-of-spn-for-me-like)

46 notes

**Anonymous asked: 1/2 This is a weird season of SPN for me. Like, i've never been so into the show in its first half as i was with s13, nor have I been more excited for a season as far as destiel! But then the strangest thing happened; Cas came back and I haven't been watching? I saw the cowboy episode and *loved* it and flailed like everyone else, and again, i was SUPER into this season. I've never watched the show just for destiel but for some reason I just stopped watching after the cowboy ep.**

2/2 Idk, maybe deep down i’m afraid they’ll just go back to normal now that Cas is back and all that euphoria we went through for most of the first half will end up being a letdown like the grace cure expectation we all had in s10. I mean i know the show has a lot going on and has to address those things too, and i’ve never had a problem with that. But for some reason now i’ve just really neutral and have lost motivation to catch up/plug back in. Is this an actual thing people deal with?!  
  


Hi there! And yeah, judging by how often I get questions along these lines, this is definitely an actual thing people deal with.

Specifically in s13, though, we’ve known all along that there was gonna be a big chunk of episodes leading up to the midseason and the 13.10 Wayward spinoff. So I don’t know if that helps or hurts as far as your concerns go, but it has been a bit of an emotional pin in the TFW story, setting up the Wayward story, you know?

I guess, spoiler alert, since I’m gonna mention stuff post 13.06, but if you’re on tumblr or follow my blog at all, it’s not gonna come as a surprise so…

13.03 focused on Patience and her introduction to Jody, 13.07 needed to split up TFW to set up the midseason drama (because this is both typically how they do it, and also because the main plot device this season is “doorways, locks, and keys” to other worlds and it’s actually particularly apt metaphorically). But 13.09 focused mostly on Kaia and her history, her abilities as a dreamwalker, and the the alternate world she’s bound to, and 13.10 will focus almost entirely on the Wayward ladies and how they help Kaia save the Winchesters from The Bad Place.

So the story has been “dialed back” emotionally on Sam, Dean, and Cas for the moment. That doesn’t mean they pushed stop on it, or are gonna derail it all entirely. But Supernatural has a  _long_  season. And while we might wish they could just zoom through the entire season without all these “detours” and diversions from the main plot arc, that’s just not how storytelling works, you know?

Just like you expressed about your own experience watching and not being able to sustain that emotional intensity as a viewer, it’s impossible that level of emotional intensity for the characters and the narrative. And just as you said, it would be  _exhausting._ Trying to maintain that intensity across 23 episodes would make the show an unwatchable mess of plot twists and turns to keep driving that intensity and urgency up to eleven.

I don’t know if you’ve ever watched 24, but it’s a show that specifically DOES maintain that Constant Threat Level of Danger across a 24 episode season, so honestly, do we really  _want_  Supernatural to turn into that? The fact they get to take these breathers between the  _gogogo_  of the entire season is actually a relief that both breaks that narrative tension and allows the characters AND the audience to catch our breaths and regroup, you know?

I’m making it sound way more dramatic than it is, but I’ve written a lot about the [narrative structure](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/narrative%20structure) of Supernatural (and [writing in general](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/this%20is%20how%20stories%20work)), and specifically how they’re telling the story in [an ever-tightening spiral](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down). We swoop through seemingly old territory over and over again, but it’s not a circle where we keep retreading the issues in the exact same way again and again. Each time we loop back around, things have changed, characters have evolved, they’re able to pass through a similar circumstance from a different perspective (and hopefully come through it better than they had in the past).

For us as viewers, it can still feel emotionally draining if we expect something drastically different from this turn of the loop, you know? There seem to be three main ways people approach the show as fans:

1\. The Excited Positive Fan, which seems to describe your engagement for the first six episodes of the season. While it’s a brilliant perspective, and it feels fantastic like you’re riding an emotional tidal wave of positivity, when it doesn’t immediately pay off it can be disillusioning. Even if you have realistic expectations for what the show intends to deliver, it can still be emotionally draining to maintain that sort of engagement over the course of months as the show airs, you know? I’ve seen so many fans burn out this way.

You mentioned s10, and the disillusionment that many people struggled with during the infamous [Carver Era Plot Accordion](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/search/plot%20accordion). Dabb has been in the writer’s room for a long time (since s4! He’s been through every iteration of the show under all three previous showrunners). He’s witnessed the fandom fallout over that nonsense first-hand, and I think he’s loath to repeat it. So whatever backward shuffle steps they take in the Character Development Cha-Cha, I don’t think they’re gonna intentionally pull another s10 and suddenly start having all the characters break into the tango instead. If that’s any sort of consolation. :P

(hooray ballroom dancing metaphors! And now for some reason I feel like reading [Shoulder to Shoulder](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Farchiveofourown.org%2Fworks%2F4948573&t=MWFlM2U5YjI4ZTcyNDdkZDRhOGE1MDE3NGE3YzQ4YTBhYzZlYTBkYix1akJaVHJjVw%3D%3D&b=t%3AgQ2jjt29OviG-kJJpyAysQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fmittensmorgul.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F169272854930%2F12-this-is-a-weird-season-of-spn-for-me-like&m=1)again… and also [El Tango de Amor](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Farchiveofourown.org%2Fworks%2F1000030&t=MzZmOWFlOWQxNjBmZDg5MjJkZTJiODI5ODFkOThkMTFhZjRlODUzOCx1akJaVHJjVw%3D%3D&b=t%3AgQ2jjt29OviG-kJJpyAysQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fmittensmorgul.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F169272854930%2F12-this-is-a-weird-season-of-spn-for-me-like&m=1))

(those are both awesome fics by the way… enjoy! :D)

(and now back to our regularly scheduled programming)

2\. The Negative Nellie, aka The Charcoal Briquette. This is the bitter and burnt fans who’ve gone past the emotional exhaustion and disillusionment of the Excited Positive Fan who’s dropped away from the show or the fandom for their own emotional and mental health, plowed right through despite knowing they’re not capable of seeing any of it in a positive light at all, where every cha-cha step in character development is seen as “proof” that the show is terrible and terribly written, and that nothing is ever going to change or develop. It’s a painful backlash to watch, and I’ve seen previously positive and engaged fans morph into various levels of bitter ex-fans for multiple reasons over the years.

This is why I’m gonna be completely honest here.

If you’re feeling bleh or meh right now, if you’re feeling that you can’t sustain that level of excitement that carried you through the first six episodes of the season, there is nothing wrong with taking a step back and waiting for more of the season to unfold.

It’s OKAY! You’re not a bad fan for taking a step back. You’re entitled to protect your own emotional involvement and investment with this show. There’s nothing wrong with waiting until hiatus to binge a whole season at a time to help avoid this sort of emotional burnout. There’s nothing wrong with seeking out spoilers in advance of watching so you’ll be emotionally prepared when you do watch.

IT’S OKAY!

There’s actually something completely awesome about Hiatus Fans, who bingewatch an entire season (or more) during the hellatus. First off, they approach the season from an entirely different perspective than those of us watching “the slow way.” They zip through the entire season in a few days (or weeks), and as a result have an entirely different sort of emotional response to things. Believe me, watching the angst slowly unfold across seven months, with plenty of time between episodes to gnash our teeth and bite our nails is very different to going in with a general idea of what will happen and then watching it all happen one right after the other without a week (or more) in between to commiserate over the angst. I understand completely, because rewatching the entire series on a loop sort of helps me put everything in perspective, you know?

For example, watching the extreme emotional knee-jerk wtf-ery of s10 KNOWING what happens, and KNOWING what comes after in s11, s12, and now part of s13 as well, it’s a LOT easier to zip through s10 with the knowledge that everything does eventually come back around again.

Because it all ALWAYS comes back around again. :P

So if you need to hit the pause button and come back to it later, armed with some knowledge of how everything eventually plays out, THERE IS 100% NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! Take care of yourself, and do what you need to keep yourself happy. Which brings me to…

3\. The Impartial Observer, or what Lizbob refers to as the “Zoomed Out” view, or how I like to think of myself, The Zen Fan. It’s not always possible to maintain that level of emotional detachment and objectivity when we ARE attached to the characters, and we DO care what happens with them. Maintaining this perspective is easiest when you love and engage with all the characters’ points of view and aren’t invested in one of them above the others, or haven’t placed your entire enjoyment of the show on one specific arc coming to fruition on a specific timeline.

If your focus narrows in to the point where the only reason you’re watching is for one single character, or expecting the payoff on one specific plot thread (including destiel), to the exclusion of everything else, it’s inevitably going to either prove disappointing, or you’re gonna burn out waiting. But it’s often hard to take an emotional step back far enough to see that bigger picture. And again, this is another advantage of waiting to watch armed with spoilers and on the artificially-emotionally-zoomed out speed run through an entire season at a time. It does make it easier to see the whole picture and not get bogged down in the parts of the season that seem to lag on the things that you’re personally emotionally invested in.

And again, THAT’S OKAY!

There’s no one right or wrong way to watch, or to engage with the show or fandom, or with any of the characters or narratives. There’s only managing your own reaction and hopefully keeping yourself from burning out or growing disillusioned. Whatever you need to do for your own personal enjoyment and mental health, it’s all fine.

But one final note here, since I seem to have gone off down several rabbit holes trying to answer you, you mentioned your fear was that they’d “go back to normal now,” and I think the assumption that there’s some sort of “normal” to go back to is missing the major point of the first part of the season. To go back and pull a quote from 11.17:

**Dean:**  Michelle, this gonna be very hard. But you will be okay. And eventually, eventually you’ll get back to normal.  
 **Michelle:** No I won’t. They said I could leave… an hour ago. But where am I even supposed to go? After everything we survived together… I watched the man I love die. There’s no normal after that.

There IS no normal after that. His old coping strategies don’t work anymore. He can’t even pretend everything’s okay anymore. THERE IS NO NORMAL. The show may need to detour through the narrative before it can progress this particular bit of emotional development for Dean (and his relationship with Cas), but it’s being done  _intentionally_.

Yes, there seems to be an even bigger pause in this particular arc right now, because the focus has shifted to the Wayward Sisters for the moment, and that plus the long winter hellatus has us all in a sort of emotional stasis over everything on top of that. But this also gives us a chance to take a step back, to zoom out and see that despite the seeming pause on that emotional and narrative arc for both Dean and Cas, we’re  _still_  seeing development– particularly through Dean’s actions and emotional reactions during subsequent episodes that don’t focus on his relationship with Cas in TEXT, but give both Dean and us a chance to step back and process and regroup and work through it all via narrative mirrors in MotW episodes, you know? That’s just how SPN is structured, and how it always has been structured. Big Doings happen in the main mytharc episodes, but the actual character development happens in the MotW via metaphor, subtext, and emotional growth.

I don’t know if any of this helps give you some perspective, or helps with your feelings of emotional let down, but needless to say, it’s really not practical nor possible to maintain the state of “euphoria” you described over the early part of the season. It’s the emotional equivalent to maintaining that high violin note building tension in a horror movie soundtrack waiting for the monster to jump out and get someone. It’s great in small doses, but it gets to a point where you either have to break the tension (either let the monster attack, or have the character walk through the scene unharmed and return to safety), or it just becomes comical and loses all of its power to hold on to the tension, like an over-inflated balloon zooming around the room making that rude PFTFTFTFTFT noise until it lands on the floor as a flabby, floppy bit of spent and useless rubber.

Nobody wants that. :P

Just let yourself breathe, know the story will take us through highs and lows, that the characters will all have ups and downs, that tension will build and recede. As long as you’re okay, there’s no right or wrong way to feel about it. :)

  

 

[i don't know what the heck to tag this... maybe](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/i-don%27t-know-what-the-heck-to-tag-this...-maybe) [fandom problems](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/fandom-problems) [narrative structure](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/narrative-structure) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [this is how stories work](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/this-is-how-stories-work) [the destiel](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-destiel) [Anonymous](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/Anonymous)


	8. Chapter 8

[Mar 4, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/171509767735/i-would-like-to-briefly-draw-everyones-attention)

96 notes

I would like to briefly draw everyone’s attention to 6.10 for a moment:

**DEAN** : Thanks, Cas. Hadn’t it been for you…  
 **CASTIEL** : Crowley was right. It’s not going well for me upstairs.  
 **DEAN** : If there’s anything we can do–  
 **CASTIEL** : There isn’t. I wish circumstances were different. Much of the time I’d rather be here.  
 **DEAN** : Look, Cas, we know you got a steaming pile on your plate. There’s no need for apologies. We’re your friends.  
 **CASTIEL** : Listen, Sam, we’ll find another way.  
 **SAM** : You really wanna help? Prison full of monsters. Can’t just leave ’em, can’t let ’em go.  
 **CASTIEL** : I understand.

What does this have in common with 13.14? And Cas’s suggestion that the kindest thing they could do for Donatello was to kill him, since they literally had no other way to help him?

In 6.10, SAM was the soulless one (who at the time didn’t want his soul back… he literally tried to kill Bobby in the very next episode in order to make it impossible to return his soul to his body, but was thwarted). In 13.14, Donatello was soulless.

Dean knew where Sam’s soul WAS at least, and knew it was theoretically possible to retrieve it. Again, proven in the very next episode. Donatello’s soul is permanently gone, incorporated into Amara. He’s the longest-surviving soulless human on the show (since 11.22, more than Sam’s year and about a half or so…). Sam FAILED to “corrupt” himself by killing Bobby, but Sam and Dean INADVERTENTLY “corrupted” Donatello with the demon tablet.

In 6.10, Cas had been working behind Sam and Dean’s backs, and was just as culpable as Crowley was for the monsters imprisoned and tortured. And yet… what else were they supposed to do with a prison full of angry monsters?

In 13.14, what made Donatello– soulless and literally corrupted by the power of the demon tablet– any different than those caged monsters?

SAM (yes, while soulless, but also not EVIL) was the one who asked Cas to kill all those monsters. Yet he vehemently objected to killing Donatello.

Why?

I mean… please offer me one good reason as to why. I have yet to hear one.

Guilt over what he’d inadvertently done to Donatello? Frustration at the fact that the one plan they had seemed to have failed? Refusal to let go of a failed plan because otherwise he would have nothing? I mean, yes… that’s all frustrating, but it doesn’t make him RIGHT here.

I put this forth: If Donatello had pulled that suffocation spell on SAM, how long do you think Dean would’ve hesitated to shoot Donatello to make it stop? I mean, he knocked out Toni Bevell in 12.02 for doing nearly the same thing to Mary. But the narrative had to keep Sam and Dean aligned in purpose, because they were both equally culpable for what happened to Donatello. So the burden of doing what really did need to be done fell to Cas.

I’m sure he wishes circumstances were different, but at least this time around he’s  _here_.

  

 

[spn 13.14](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-13.14) [spn 6.10](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-6.10) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [castiel winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/castiel-winchester) [oh DEAN](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/oh-DEAN) [sam fucking winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/sam-fucking-winchester)


	9. Chapter 9

[Apr 10, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/172796680950/sometimes-im-absolutely-convinced-that-theyre)

33 notes

sometimes I’m absolutely convinced that they’re essentially writing this show just for us at this point, that the writers are just as caught up in all the deep character meta stuff as we are, and they’ve tossed everything else out the window to write the character development meta-narrative we all deserve

I had this thought yesterday rewatching early s9. And I just rewatched 9.11, and I’m doubling down on that original thought.

Cain tells his story about why he killed Abel and agreed to take his place in Lucifer’s service, taking on the Mark but KILLING his brother in the process (where Dean saved Sam instead), this episode really feels like the turning point of the entire character arc. 11.23 is where Dean comes out the other side, but this episode ties the “as above, so below” from the Winchesters to Cain and Abel, to Lucifer and Michael, and then finally to God and Amara.

And right now the only layer of this cosmic cake that’s left unresolved in Luci/Michael. At least on the cosmic/metaphysical ladder, which Gabriel first made clear back in 5.08.

And now Gabriel is back, and the Michael/Luci issue straddles two universes, and “as above, so below” has taken on an entirely new layer that will need to be dealt with by the Winchesters eventually.

Except now we’re not working on “as above, so below,” but on “as below, so above.” Because this isn’t about destiny, and hasn’t been since Chuck and Amara got their resolution because of Dean’s influence over them.

We’re still progressing along all the same themes, all the same personal arcs, the same slowly winding spiral, and it’s so incredibly satisfying to stand back far enough and watch it all unroll.

That’s all, this is just a bit of writer appreciation. I see what y’all did there, and I’m so freaking pleased about it. Okay. That’s it.

  

 

[supernatural](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/supernatural) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [sometimes i just need to get all weepy about how well this dumb show is written](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/sometimes-i-just-need-to-get-all-weepy-about-how-well-this-dumb-show-is-written)


	10. Chapter 10

[May 4, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/173583799715/nice-little-parallel-between-cas-holding-dean-back)

57 notes

**Anonymous asked: Nice little parallel between Cas holding Dean back in this ep because of Sam's death and Sam holding Dean back in 12x23 in the rift.**

(parallel anon) Haha I just saw your tags on a gifset from this ep saying the exact same thing. But I want to ask; i’m not always great at meta stuff and picking up on things, though I do love reading meta. But if Dean reacts to Sam and Cas’s deaths the same way (distraught, numb, etc) where’s the difference? Like, i’ve seen destiel meta say that there’s clearly a difference between the way Dean reacts to Cas vs Sam, but he doesn’t? Thank you so much and i hope i made some semblance of sense!<3  
  


AAAHHHAHAHAHA! Hi. I’m just looking at my inbox and saw this. :D

I was watching 12.23 this morning when I wrote those tags, so it felt particularly traumatic.

But I don’t see them as the same… not entirely.  First off, that scene in 11.23 wasn’t Dean reacting to Cas’s death, you know? He was watching Cas walk away from him into danger. Cas was very much still alive at that point. But when Cas actually died, falling to the ground as Lucifer is revealed behind him… Dean may have been speechless but he was in SHOCK. He was not processing yet… there was still danger, you know?

But once the rift closed, Dean… did not function. He dropped to his knees trying to process and completely failing. Sam ran inside to check on Kelly and her “baby” and found Jack, but Dean just… knelt there. For a while. Until he realized that a) Sam was possibly in danger facing off against the Satan Babby alone, but also b) Dean had a Satan Babby to shoot in the face because he 100% blamed Jack for Castiel’s death. 

Obviously those feelings evolved over the early part of s13, and are still evolving, but the fact that Dean LET Cas redirect him in 13.21 was just… earth-shattering. Yes, Dean still wasn’t processing the full weight of Sam’s death yet, and yes he knew he still had a mission to carry on and a time limit on handling it due to the rift still being dependent on however long Luci’s grace would hold out, and he wasn’t gonna let Sam have died in vain… I mean there was A LOT going on here.

But… Sam tried for FIVE EPISODES in s13 to “redirect” Dean, and Cas managed it in like 5 seconds so… But I mean Sam didn’t “stay dead,” so we don’t really know how this would’ve affected Dean long-term, but there is a distinct difference in Dean’s reaction to this iteration of Sam’s death versus the last Bobo episode where Sam died– 11.17.

I’ve spent some time digging out all the meta from 11.17 that I was screaming about how fantastic this was as a growth episode for Dean, and how it was actually a herald for the eventual breaking of the codependency…

<http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/150593470245/if-you-think-that-there-was-any-growth-for-dean>

<http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/143905783710/i-completely-agree-with-your-posts-about-the>

<http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/162992472465/in-season-11-when-that-girl-said-i-watched-the>

<http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/164568969480/todays-jaunt-through-the-tnt-loop-hit-the-part-of>

I mean, 11.17 was PAINFUL, but in a “this hurts because it’s about growth” rather than “this hurts because it’s about regression.” I think it’s probably my favorite episode in all of s11. So.

I need to rewatch this episode about 50 times, but this is Bobo doubling down on all of these themes and showing us significant character development for Dean here.

It’s not a competition between Dean reacting better or worse to Sam’s death or Cas’s death here… it’s about the larger context. And the context in 13.21 is just entirely different now.

  

 

[spn 13.21](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-13.21) [spn 12.23](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-12.23) [spn 11.17](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-11.17) [breaking the codependency](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/breaking-the-codependency) [destiel](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/destiel) [oh DEAN](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/oh-DEAN) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [this is a progression and you can practically witness dean growing here](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/this-is-a-progression-and-you-can-practically-witness-dean-growing-here)[like elsa said LET IT GO and as horrifying an iteration as this is that's what dean's learning here](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/like-elsa-said-LET-IT-GO-and-as-horrifying-an-iteration-as-this-is-that%27s-what-dean%27s-learning-here)[Anonymous](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/Anonymous)


	11. Chapter 11

[Jun 22, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/175149178645/hi-ive-just-rewatched-some-episodes-from-season)

12 notes

**Anonymous asked: Hi! I’ve just rewatched some episodes from season 4 and Idk I saw some parallels with season 10 like summer with a demon, being seduced by demon, deals with demon. Have you smth for this specially? (Or is this just product of my twisted mind?)**

Yeah, s10 and the demon!Dean and MoC arcs were very much Dean’s version of Sam’s demon blood arc from s4. I can’t think of any specific meta off the top of my head, and it wasn’t until later in s10 that I started to tag things practically so I could find them again… >.>

But this is definitely not just the product of a twisted mind. Unless, like me, you’ve been screaming about the spiral nature of the narrative of Supernatural for years. (even confirmed by members of the writing staff, so this isn’t blowing smoke or “reading too much” into it, this is literally how they’re writing the narrative). :)

We keep looping through similar narrative points, but each time we revisit similar themes, the context has evolved, or the characters experiences have led them to approach this similar situation in a new way. It shows us how the characters have grown, what they’ve learned, and this is really the important thing to witness.

  

 

[spn s4](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s4) [spn s10](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s10) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down)


	12. Chapter 12

[Aug 14, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/177007549070/ive-been-thinking-a-lot-about-lucifer-in-s13)

73 notes

I’ve been thinking a lot about Lucifer in s13, specifically related to themes of fatherhood and parenting. I mean, it’s obvious he was one of the more massive Fails in the entire series at this, but it was a fail in a very specific way, framed with a very specific set of themes for a good chunk of the season.

Specifically, Lucifer’s “failure” as a father was more often than not framed around the fact that Jack “takes after his mother.”

Let me back up here, because there’s a lot (probably too much) to say about this not from Lucifer’s point of view, but from Jack’s.

Jack’s early season goal to know and understand his mother was all but supplanted in the last run of episodes where he all but demanded to get to know his father for himself, to come to his own conclusions about Lucifer. I’ve already talked some about how his adoptive family tiptoed around Jack regarding Lucifer (to everyone’s detriment, but in the name of protecting him from painful truths):

<http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/174707010300/i-find-it-a-little-odd-no-ones-talked-about-jack>

But in the earliest episodes he was already asking questions, and trying to find answers. With Kelly dead, Jack could only know her through the videos she left him supporting him and believing in him, and the leftover feelings and impressions he picked up from her before he was born.

And after that, everyone and their uncle continued to remind Jack that he was good, because Kelly was good, you know? Even when people (and often it was Cas) talked to Lucifer about Jack, he always reminded Lucifer that Jack was more like his mother. First in 13.07:

**LUCIFER** : Jack. Wow. Is he… [Chuckles] awesome? I mean, is he a chip off the old block?  
 **CASTIEL** : Thankfully, no. No, he seems to favor the mother.

And then in 13.12:

**CASTIEL** : You want truth? How ‘bout I tell you a few truths about your son?  
 **LUCIFER** : Did you just have an angel stroke?   
 **CASTIEL** : Did you know that he loves movies? Fantasy movies, movies with heroes who crush villains.  
 **LUCIFER** : [scoffs] Well, that’s – that’s – that’s nurture. That’s not nature.  
 **CASTIEL** : And he’s thoughtful. He’s emotional. Remarkably intuitive. You – you know, he, uh, he resurrected me just out of instinct. Isn’t that a beautiful gesture?  
 **LUCIFER** : [pacing angrily in his cell] Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s beautiful.  
 **CASTIEL** : Jack would rather kill you than hug you. Seems relevant. Did you know he doesn’t – he doesn’t even really look like you? And he reminds me so much of his mother.   
 **LUCIFER** : [whispers] Wow.

And through all of this, Jack held true to that. He was duped by Lucifer, just like his mother was. In fact, the way Jack was warned about Lucifer bore a lot of parallels to the way Kelly was warned by Lucifer, and they both decided they knew better than the well-founded yet poorly delivered and not terribly convincing advice everyone else tried to give them.

So I was thinking about all of this yesterday, and then I woke up this morning to this conversation with angstphilosophy (sorry, not tagging because I’m not sure tumblr has figured out the ridiculous notification bug yet):

> angstphilosophy  
> It’s funny and depressing to think that Team Free Will is always united somehow by Daddy Issues. We’ve got John’s A+ Parenting, we’ve got Chuck (whose situation was understandable but still left his thousands or so angelic kids in bad shape), and we’ve got Jack whose situation with his own biological father is ironic because Lucifer’s own father was Chuck  
> Then if you consider other major players in TFW like Bobby and Mary, whose own fathers were abusive in their own right  
> It’s no wonder why they’re all doing their best to make up for what their own fathers didn’t do and give their care something they never got
> 
> mittensmorgul  
> this is all true  
> I was thinking of making a post yesterday about how all through s13 Lucifer kept SAYING he wanted to play the role of Jack’s father because he was his biodad, but every time he was confronted about this, Cas didn’t come back with “we’re raising Jack” or “he thinks of ME as his father figure” it ALWAYS was about Kelly– “his mother”  
> Heck I need more coffee then I’m gonna write that post  
> *after coffee  
> >.>
> 
> angstphilosophy  
> Ooh I’ll await~
> 
> angstphilosophy  
> But SPN has a big Daddy Issue theme going on :P  
> (Which I’ll expect for them to resolve with TFW)
> 
> mittensmorgul  
> yeah
> 
> angstphilosophy  
> Not so much with the past and blame but more with doing whatever they can to move on and give each other the healthy support that they didn’t really get  
> Because like you said, the blaming stuff was over in s11 (at least for TFW… not sure about Lucifer >.> but you know he’s a fuckface)

And this was like 12 hours ago and I wish I could remember everything I was gonna add to this, but I could go on for hours.

But Mary had issues with her own father being too controlling over her, which I think influenced how she handled Jack’s interest in hearing out Lucifer in 13.22. I mean, no reasonable person would’ve left that conversation entirely in Jack’s hands. Sure, Mary was right about it ultimately being up to Jack, but it’s so easy to forget that in a lot of ways he really is still naive and often childish in his thinking. He’s easily manipulated by emotions, so Lucifer played to his emotions. Much like Azazel had played to Mary’s emotions, giving her everything she ever thought she wanted with such a vague and nebulous future price tag attached…

I mean Azazel resurrected John for Mary as emotional leverage, similar to how Lucifer resurrected Sam for Jack… Mary hadn’t been willing to deal with Azazel until he threw John into the offer, and Lucifer knew Jack wouldn’t talk to him unless he sweetened the deal with Sam, and then with Maggie’s resurrection (reluctantly made after he’d been the one to kill her) in 13.23.

And Lucifer himself never had any real love for Jack, aside from what he thought he could do with Jack as his weapon. Strangely, the metaphor often applied to Dean with regard to how John raised him. Which only makes it clearer to me that the show acknowledges how John raised Dean (and Sam, but this language is typically applied only to Dean this way… Dean was the weapon, Sam was the object being guarded).

Oddly enough, Dean has finally claimed the pinnacle of his status as “Weapon.” He even used the phrase that made me cringe back in s5, that he’s Michael’s sword. (at least he’s upgraded himself from “blunt instrument” but this is a terrible upgrade)

The fact that Dean continues to “weaponize” himself in favor of protecting everyone around him instead is just… what he criticized Cas for back in s12, what he was upset with Sam for in s8, and yet what he himself does again and again (MoC, Soul Bomb, and now Dinkle).

So Dean’s self-weaponization here seems to be the central conflict of early s12, where he can finally lay down this notion that his only worth is as a sword.

But a lot of these father-related issues are potentially up for grabs, and where there are father issues there are mother issues.

This post goes in circles I think… There will be more on this subject in the future… this ended up just being a lot of random notes to bear in mind as s14 unfolds…

  

 

[spn s14 speculation](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-speculation) [spn 13.07](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-13.07) [spn 13.12](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-13.12) [jack nougat winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/jack-nougat-winchester) [dinkle](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/dinkle) [mary f winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/mary-f-winchester) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [the ghost of john winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-ghost-of-john-winchester) [winchester family dynamics](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/winchester-family-dynamics) [oh DEAN](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/oh-DEAN)


	13. Chapter 13

[Aug 29, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/177521868790/lucifer-rising-is-on-tnt-today-s4-is-one-of-my)

27 notes

**Anonymous asked: Lucifer Rising is on TNT today. S4 is one of my fave bookend seasons: Lazarus Rising and Lucifer Rising. What are your favorite seasons for great first and last episodes?**

Heck, seeing as I just watched the end of 4.22 also… :P

Yeah, s4 is fantastic this way, and in some ways is entirely unique. It sets up a goal for the season, a big bad that becomes the mission from the moment Dean pops up out of his grave. Kill Lilith and stop Lucifer from rising.

hurdeblurrr… little did they (or we, the audience) know that killing Lilith in exactly the way Sam and Dean were both being set up for would  _release_  Lucifer from the cage, you know? With hindsight, we understand that’s the information Cas had been trying to share with Dean in 4.20 when he was hauled back to Heaven for reprogramming, and along with Dean’s pleas in 4.22, it’s what convinced Cas to rebel (and led to his first death and resurrection in 5.01).

DRAMATIC IRONY! of which we the audience were just as misled as Sam and Dean through the entire season. It’s fantastic.

Season six tried to pull a similar trick, and thank heck for Ben Edlund salvaging Cas as a character by giving us 6.20, or else Cas would’ve been irredeemable. But that’s when we were let in on the context of the dramatic irony and horrific angst of the entire season.

s7, for all its faults, also neatly solved the season-long issue in the finale. Dean finally got Dick. :P

s11 is still my favorite though. It starts with Dean regaining his humanity, his autonomy, as the mark is removed, and finally finding a sort of balance– both within himself and in a cosmic sense of reunifying God and the Darkness. So what had been torn asunder and broken finally began coming together and healing. And I think the show is still continuing these themes for Sam, Dean, and Cas…

And that dramatic irony has powered a lot of Dabb era as well. S12 and s13 began letting us the audience in on some of the irony as the story unfolded, much the same way that s5 did…

S4, TFW was largely in the dark the entire season, but in s5 they begin to understand the bigger picture, all the prophecy nonsense they were born into, and begin learning how to play at that next level. Basically they get a paygrade promotion. It’s how they eventually manage at least a partial save on the Apocalypse in 5.22. Partial, because Sam still has to sacrifice himself, and now in s13 that’s become an unacceptable loss…

(Dean’s still working on himself as an acceptable loss in the Grand Scheme… I mean he did volunteer to be the soul bomb in 11.23, and he took on Michael without blinking in 13.23. I see this on par with s4 in that it was a Desperation Play, and not what Dean would’ve chosen if he’d had any other weapon at his disposal, you know? So the next go-around I see taking on some of the “getting out in front of the story” again like they began to push through in s5.

This is the essence of the spiral narrative I talk about, like, all the time. It’s not just situational, or character-arcs that go around and around, it’s the whole Grand Narrative doing the thing. And every time the wheel grinds around again, we’re a little bit closer to the center, and the characters are at slightly different spots in their own arcs, and for better or worse we get slightly different outcomes each time because of that.

Heck I love this show.

  

 

[it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down)


	14. Chapter 14

[Nov 13, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/180074141205/if-you-enjoy-suffering-join-me-in-watching-201)

18 notes

If you enjoy suffering, join me in watching 2.01 with 14.05 fresh in your mind. Holy heck… this hurrrrrrts, but whoa has Dean grown up since then.

So while John is lying through his teeth about everything he plans to do, telling Sam he needs some spell ingredients for “protection” from the demon, he’s actually planning to summon the demon to make a deal with it. He just Executive Decisions it, effectively forcing Sam and Dean down to the kid’s table, not even giving them any say in the matter… Dean is seeing the bigger picture clearly from outside the narrative, as a disembodied spirit. He gets to say what he’s really feeling, but of course John can’t even hear him. Dean’s not entirely convinced it’s any different than when John could see and hear him:

! **DEAN** : Come on, Dad. You’ve gotta help me. I’ve gotta get better, I’ve gotta get back in there. I mean, you haven’t called a soul for help. You haven’t even tried. Aren’t you going to do anything? Aren’t you even going to say anything?  
(he starts walking around the bed)  
I’ve done everything you have ever asked me. Everything. I have given everything I’ve ever had. And you’re just going to sit there and you’re going to watch me die? I mean, what the hell kind of father are you? 

John has lied to Sam and Dean about the truth about Sam and his abilities, effectively robbing them of their most powerful weapon in the same breath he apologizes to Dean. The implications are horrifying…

And it’s taken how many turns of this narrative screw before Dean could even reach a place where he could have that conversation with Sasha in 14.05? 

This whole damn show is suffering, and Meredith Glynn is strip-mining the past to cause me pain today. :P

  

 

[spn s14 spoilers](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-spoilers) [spn 14.05](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-14.05) [spn 2.01](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-2.01) [the ghost of john winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-ghost-of-john-winchester) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [spn s14 meta rewatch](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-meta-rewatch) [oh DEAN](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/oh-DEAN) [meredith glynn appreciation tag](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/meredith-glynn-appreciation-tag) [spiders georg of the tnt loop](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spiders-georg-of-the-tnt-loop)


	15. Chapter 15

[Nov 13, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/180076074135/update-from-the-tnt-loop-my-suffering-is-only)

11 notes

Update from the tnt loop: my suffering is only intensifying with 2.02.

sam vs clowns

sam putting himself in charge

pushing dean to open up and deal with John’s death

aka “it’s healthy to talk about your feelings dean, so i will push and push and push until you do, while also not actually talking about my own feelings” Volume 1

*spins the cosmic wheel a dozen times until we’re at s14 and cries because whoa*

(sorry this is just incoherent rambling but it makes perfect sense to me… from the pov of “it’s spirals all the way down” and “the scheherazade theory of supernatural”… I’m gonna need a tag for this separate from the destiel storyline… how about “we are all shahryar”)

  

 

[spn 2.02](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-2.02) [spn 14.05](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-14.05) [sam sympathizes and dean empathizes](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/sam-sympathizes-and-dean-empathizes) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down)[we are all shahryar](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/we-are-all-shahryar) [the ghost of john winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-ghost-of-john-winchester) [winchester family dynamics](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/winchester-family-dynamics) [spiders georg of the tnt loop](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spiders-georg-of-the-tnt-loop) [this is how stories work](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/this-is-how-stories-work) [and honestly the suggestion that this is bad storytelling is just... wtf...](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/and-honestly-the-suggestion-that-this-is-bad-storytelling-is-just...-wtf...) [from the surface level if you completely forget the beginning of this story it might look dull but that long ago ceased to be the point](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/from-the-surface-level-if-you-completely-forget-the-beginning-of-this-story-it-might-look-dull-but-that-long-ago-ceased-to-be-the-point) [and if you're not in love with scheherazade by this point you might as well just chop off her head and move on to the next wife](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/and-if-you%27re-not-in-love-with-scheherazade-by-this-point-you-might-as-well-just-chop-off-her-head-and-move-on-to-the-next-wife)


	16. Chapter 16

[Nov 13, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/180077168935/the-pain-of-s2-does-not-improve-as-we-progress)

14 notes

The pain of s2 does not improve as we progress into 2.03…

Gordon gives Dean a different perspective on John through a narrative mirror mentor figure…

Even up to 2.01, Dean had still been accepting John’s orders without question, including the whole “you’ll have to kill Sam if you can’t save him.” Yes, he’s having trouble coping with that burden, and he still doesn’t even know what John meant by it– nor what John had known about Sam and Azazel’s other “special children.” John didn’t leave him with any real information or any real tools for working through this problem. He just dumped the entire problem into Dean’s lap, and Dean has been doing his best to keep going…

Dean even confesses to Gordon–  _because he is not Sam_ – that he’s not handling John’s death well. Gordon gives him what seems like solid advice, the whole “black and white” “find the bad thing and kill it” mentality. But all the while he’s let Dean believe a falsehood– that vampires killed his sister, when Gordon had killed his own sister because the vampires had turned her. It seems like a small lie to believe it, but it’s a game changer.

(Like John swearing he had no idea what Azazel wanted, or what might happen to Sam because of what had been done to him…  _or even what exactly HAD been done to him…_ I mean, SAM doesn’t even learn about what really happened in his nursery until 2.21… but it’s implied that John had known the entire time, so DOUBLE yikes)

Then we have our first “moral monsters” in Lenore and her family, in an episode where we learn the real monster was Gordon himself.

Vampires, daddy issues, grey morality, finding another way, Sam taking charge, understanding who the real monsters are… we’ve come a very, very long way 

  

 

[spn s14 spoilers](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-spoilers) [spn 14.05](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-14.05) [spn 2.03](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-2.03) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [the ghost of john winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-ghost-of-john-winchester) [spn s14 meta rewatch](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-meta-rewatch) [we are all shahryar](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/we-are-all-shahryar) [spiders georg of the tnt loop](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spiders-georg-of-the-tnt-loop)


	17. Chapter 17

[Nov 13, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/180078742310/me-204-sure-lets-just-hang-marys-ghost-and)

12 notes

Me @ 2.04:

Sure, let’s just hang Mary’s ghost and the symbol of their lifelong revenge mission that drove them all to this breaking point over top of everything, pushing the restructuring of their life’s mission into a different perspective and nudging Dean into seeing the burden of guilt that John shoved on him before sacrificing himself, effectively leaving Dean behind to play the role of the weapon…

Meanwhile Sam doubts Dean’s instincts that there is definitely a case in this town and yes, Dean’s doing the whole “run headlong into the case” thing he does, and was still doing in 14.03, but  _Dean is not wrong here_. While his approach is coming from a defensive position because John’s final words to him have left Dean essentially entirely alone in the world, unable to fully trust Sam because  _he doesn’t have all the information on what John’s warning even meant_ , it’s just… all of this is overlaid with the specter of Mary’s death, the catalyst to this entire narrative. And just…

I honestly do not see any point to Dean needing to confront John. I know people are really thinking that needs to happen, or is being set up to happen, and heck… maybe it is. But the point is that  _Dean has been coming to a fuller understanding of everything WITHOUT John_. What is the point of Dean ever getting the chance to say any of this to John’s face? The show has already told us that’s a meaningless endeavor via Lucifer failing to get any sort of real resolution with Chuck. It’s an empty gesture. Luci vented, Chuck shrugged, and it helped neither of them in the long run. Again, this is why I was actually PLEASED that Cas didn’t bring his grievances to Chuck, because it would’ve been ultimately this dissatisfying. The best resolution Dean can get with John is coming to terms with that guilt, that burden of everything John laid on him his whole life, understanding how it affected him, and then laying that baggage down.

What’s dead should stay dead, after all.

And Dean feels that way about HIMSELF right now in 2.04, but by the end of that season he’s going to do exactly the same thing to Sam, because that’s what parents do for their children… sacrifice themselves… which is DOUBLY awful for Dean because John has laid this burden of responsibility for Sam’s life on him alone, along with the guilt that he had well and truly failed in that only mission that was ever important in John’s eyes. Well, he’s been trying like heck to lay that burden down, rather than let his resentment continue to poison his own life and infect his choices.

[Originally posted by fromthemotionpicture](https://tmblr.co/ZMsQ3x2NKy4Qx)

  

 

[spn s14 spoilers](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-spoilers) [spn 14.05](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-14.05) [spn 2.04](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-2.04) [the ghost of john winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-ghost-of-john-winchester) [mary f winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/mary-f-winchester)[oh DEAN](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/oh-DEAN) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down) [spn s14 meta rewatch](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-meta-rewatch) [spiders georg of the tnt loop](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spiders-georg-of-the-tnt-loop)


	18. Chapter 18

[Dec 6, 2018](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/180877592030/on-supernatural-you-cant-be-a-real-hunter-until)

384 notes

On Supernatural, you can’t be a real hunter until you’ve died and come back. Congrats, Jack!

But also, you aren’t a real parent until you’ve died for your child.

  1. John sold his soul for Dean in 1.22.
  2. Bobby stabbed himself for Dean in 5.01, and then sold his soul for Dean for Death’s location in 5.21, and then evaded his reaper to stay with Sam and Dean in s7.
  3. Mary sold herself to the BMoL for Sam, to save him from a world with monsters in it.
  4. Lily Sunder literally burned up all but the last sliver of her own soul for her daughter.
  5. Dean sold his soul for Sam in 2.22.
  6. ETA: Sam didn’t die in 13.23, but he did die in 13.21 on the way to rescue Jack and Mary, but that isn’t quite the same thing. But yeah, he faced LUCIFER, tried to put himself between Jack and LUCIFER, his greatest fear, and tells Jack to kill him to save himself. Not quite the same, but close enough.Not many people are willing to stand up to Lucifer himself to protect someone. That’s the sort of thing you do for your kid and pretty much nobody else.



Now Cas has essentially done the same for Jack.

But what has always, ALWAYS been the result of these deals?

  1. John was released from Hell in 2.22.
  2. Bobby recovered from stabbing himself, reclaimed his soul from Crowley in 6.04, and finally was saved from Hell by Sam in 8.19. And he’s still happily in Heaven.
  3. Mary was released from what the BMoL did to her.
  4. Lily Sunder redeemed herself in her own eyes and saved HERSELF from Hell through a selfless act of saving someone else’s child.
  5. Dean was raised from Hell.
  6. Dean dealt himself to Michael to save Sam and Jack.



BUT HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

  1. John was released from Hell WITH HELP FROM SAM AND DEAN. The Hellgate opened, and he escaped to help kill Azazel.
  2. Bobby recovered from his stabbing by A SECOND ACT of selling his soul, recovered from THAT by EXPLICITLY ASKING FOR HELP FROM SAM AND DEAN, was released from ghosthood by asking Sam and Dean to let him go and burn the flask, and was released from hell BY SAM.
  3. Mary was saved from losing herself by Dean confronting her in her own mind. HE ASKED HER TO SEE THE TRUTH.
  4. Lily Sunder knowingly cast that spell, knowing what the consequences would be, and saved someone else’s child, which (poetically) redeemed her own soul so she could be reunited with her own child.
  5. CAS raised Dean from Hell…
  6. Everyone worked together to save Dean from Michael, but they still haven’t ended that threat… but the four of them are working TOGETHER to do that.



So.. since this is a retelling of the old story, Sailing to Byzantium style, Cas has got to get over the notion that he’s somehow protecting Sam and Dean by not telling them about his deal with the Empty. Sure, he might gladly return there in exchange for Jack, but  _he doesn’t know how much that would break Dean_. We know. We saw it in 13.01-13.05.

So, yes, Cas’s deal must be broken, because the narrative is screaming for it to happen. He must be saved,  _but he must be saved by his loved ones._  He can’t do it alone. He can’t go gently into that good night. That’s not the story they’ve ever told, so it can’t be the story they’re telling now.

  

 

[spn s14 spoilers](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-s14-spoilers) [spn 14.08](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn-14.08) [castiel winchester](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/castiel-winchester) [it's spirals all the way down](http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/it%27s-spirals-all-the-way-down)


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